I'm Putting God Back In The Box
I'll admit I'm cynical to the point where it's a sin when it comes to this issue. But I'm tired of the phrase, "don't put God in a box" (and all similar phrases). It's a phrase I used to enjoy throwing around, especially to my Dad when I was home from College in the mid 90's. It's funny how much ones God view, world view and theology can evolve and change as you grow spiritually. I'm usually very guarded with whom I choose to share ideas and thoughts on prayer and how God might be working in the world today. That being said I'm getting ready to share some of these very thoughts with whoever chooses to read this posting. Typical responses I tend to get when I share personal ideas about prayer and God's activity in the world are, "you limit God," "your putting God in a box," "God wants us to ask him for everything and anything," "God can't give you what you don't ask for."
I have a problem with the "laundry list" or "top 10 ten" list kind of prayer. Not that it is wrong I just think it may not be the kind of prayer God really desires from me. I struggle with how exactly God intervenes in the world, particularly with regard to physical healing. In fact, this may come as a shock to you but I never prayed once for God to physically heal Rachel and NOBODY loves her or wanted her well more than I did. I just don't believe that sort of prayer is where I should spend my time. People get sick and die of all sorts of diseases all the time. I'll do my best to organize these thoughts as best I can.
I cannot just accept easy answers or explanations to complex issues. I do not believe God manipulates free will. If He did than He would cease to be a relational God and that is the one thing God will never do. He will not break covenant, meaning He will always remain relational in nature. Since I believe He does not manipulate or override ones free will there will always be drunk driving accidents, murder, terrorism, etc... regardless of prayer. That is precisely the reason I cannot get myself to pray for "safe travel," because I believe in doing that, I'm asking God to disregard another's free will. For example, an individual has the ability to make the decision to consume too much alcohol and get behind the wheel. When this happens there is a good chance (because of free will) that people will be harmed and/or killed.
I find it interesting that the only time Jesus cries (that we know of) is when He is asked to bring someone (Lazarus) back to life. I personally believe this caused Jesus much grief because He knew and realized just what He was calling Lazarus back from. By the way, Lazarus still eventually died! So in praying for physical healing aren't we just asking God to delay the natural course of action that was instituted after sin entered into the world? I also want to point out here that Jesus did not come to hand out a miracle every time someone had a need. Did Jesus heal, yes. Jesus was moved with compassion when he saw people hurting. However, we must realize most people Jesus didn't heal. Most people read John’s narrative about the sick man at the pool in Bethzatha and say, "PRAISE THE LORD, JESUS HEALS!!!!" I read Johns words and say, MOST people he didn't heal." Jesus walks by the pool with dozens if not hundreds of sick people and heals one. So most He doesn't heal. What’s the point...It's a big one. Jesus didn't come to heal. The gospel is NOT about how comfortable your life is. It's about putting your faith and trust in a man named Jesus, who never had a home, who didn't have many possessions and who suffered his entire life.
Another aspect I struggle with is when people are inconsistent. For example, week in and week out in bible class and church we pray for people. Relatives, friends, family, loved ones, etc... We pray for cancer to be removed, pregnancies to go well and pain to be relieved. However, just about every church I have been a part of has had a member or members that are blind, paralyzed, mentally handicap, etc... And those people are never prayed over that God may miraculously heal them in our presence. In fact, there is a deaf man that recently placed membership at the church I worship at. He has been attending for several months if not a year. I have NEVER seen his name on a prayer list and to my knowledge he is never prayed over so that his hearing may be restored. Yet, every week we pray (and believe) that God will heal all other types of illnesses. I see this as a strange contradiction. IF Jesus was in the business of healing peoples physical ailments and we really believed that...why isn't the deaf man being prayed for???
So by this point you may be thinking what in the world do I pray for. Prayer is a HUGE part of my spiritual walk; in fact, I like to think I have a very healthy prayer life and communication with God. However, I prefer to spend time in silence before God, I chose to meditate on his word rather than pray a "laundry" or "top 10 list." I find it much more meaningful (and relevant) to spend time in solitude and ask that God would form and shape me more into the image of his Son than to ask for my "cold" to go away or my bank account to miraculously grow.
I've decided to put God back in the box for awhile. And in the box, I hope to find some quiet time to read and be transformed by God's prayer book, the Psalms. In the box, where it is quiet, I will strain to hear the voice of God and to do my best to be discerning. In the box, where all the noise is filtered out, I will pray and listen and hopefully be transformed into the person God intended me to be. In the box, I will find peace as I practice the spiritual disciple of solitude that has sustained so many for so long. In the box, I will realize that God is not my "genie in a bottle" but be reminded that He made himself flesh and dwelt among us and experienced pain, illness, hurt, and most of all abandonment. Jesus wanted a prayer answered so badly that he cursed God when it wasn't answered, "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me??? And God said nothing. Thank God for his silence, for if He would have answered that prayer...there would be no Christians at all.
The house is quiet, my wife and daughter are asleep...I think I'll head to my box.
I have a problem with the "laundry list" or "top 10 ten" list kind of prayer. Not that it is wrong I just think it may not be the kind of prayer God really desires from me. I struggle with how exactly God intervenes in the world, particularly with regard to physical healing. In fact, this may come as a shock to you but I never prayed once for God to physically heal Rachel and NOBODY loves her or wanted her well more than I did. I just don't believe that sort of prayer is where I should spend my time. People get sick and die of all sorts of diseases all the time. I'll do my best to organize these thoughts as best I can.
I cannot just accept easy answers or explanations to complex issues. I do not believe God manipulates free will. If He did than He would cease to be a relational God and that is the one thing God will never do. He will not break covenant, meaning He will always remain relational in nature. Since I believe He does not manipulate or override ones free will there will always be drunk driving accidents, murder, terrorism, etc... regardless of prayer. That is precisely the reason I cannot get myself to pray for "safe travel," because I believe in doing that, I'm asking God to disregard another's free will. For example, an individual has the ability to make the decision to consume too much alcohol and get behind the wheel. When this happens there is a good chance (because of free will) that people will be harmed and/or killed.
I find it interesting that the only time Jesus cries (that we know of) is when He is asked to bring someone (Lazarus) back to life. I personally believe this caused Jesus much grief because He knew and realized just what He was calling Lazarus back from. By the way, Lazarus still eventually died! So in praying for physical healing aren't we just asking God to delay the natural course of action that was instituted after sin entered into the world? I also want to point out here that Jesus did not come to hand out a miracle every time someone had a need. Did Jesus heal, yes. Jesus was moved with compassion when he saw people hurting. However, we must realize most people Jesus didn't heal. Most people read John’s narrative about the sick man at the pool in Bethzatha and say, "PRAISE THE LORD, JESUS HEALS!!!!" I read Johns words and say, MOST people he didn't heal." Jesus walks by the pool with dozens if not hundreds of sick people and heals one. So most He doesn't heal. What’s the point...It's a big one. Jesus didn't come to heal. The gospel is NOT about how comfortable your life is. It's about putting your faith and trust in a man named Jesus, who never had a home, who didn't have many possessions and who suffered his entire life.
Another aspect I struggle with is when people are inconsistent. For example, week in and week out in bible class and church we pray for people. Relatives, friends, family, loved ones, etc... We pray for cancer to be removed, pregnancies to go well and pain to be relieved. However, just about every church I have been a part of has had a member or members that are blind, paralyzed, mentally handicap, etc... And those people are never prayed over that God may miraculously heal them in our presence. In fact, there is a deaf man that recently placed membership at the church I worship at. He has been attending for several months if not a year. I have NEVER seen his name on a prayer list and to my knowledge he is never prayed over so that his hearing may be restored. Yet, every week we pray (and believe) that God will heal all other types of illnesses. I see this as a strange contradiction. IF Jesus was in the business of healing peoples physical ailments and we really believed that...why isn't the deaf man being prayed for???
So by this point you may be thinking what in the world do I pray for. Prayer is a HUGE part of my spiritual walk; in fact, I like to think I have a very healthy prayer life and communication with God. However, I prefer to spend time in silence before God, I chose to meditate on his word rather than pray a "laundry" or "top 10 list." I find it much more meaningful (and relevant) to spend time in solitude and ask that God would form and shape me more into the image of his Son than to ask for my "cold" to go away or my bank account to miraculously grow.
I've decided to put God back in the box for awhile. And in the box, I hope to find some quiet time to read and be transformed by God's prayer book, the Psalms. In the box, where it is quiet, I will strain to hear the voice of God and to do my best to be discerning. In the box, where all the noise is filtered out, I will pray and listen and hopefully be transformed into the person God intended me to be. In the box, I will find peace as I practice the spiritual disciple of solitude that has sustained so many for so long. In the box, I will realize that God is not my "genie in a bottle" but be reminded that He made himself flesh and dwelt among us and experienced pain, illness, hurt, and most of all abandonment. Jesus wanted a prayer answered so badly that he cursed God when it wasn't answered, "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me??? And God said nothing. Thank God for his silence, for if He would have answered that prayer...there would be no Christians at all.
The house is quiet, my wife and daughter are asleep...I think I'll head to my box.
14 Comments:
Wow. That is a lot to think about and digest. Thanks for letting your guard down and sharing your ideas so openly. I am not sure that I agree with everything that you shared, but your writing is certainally thought provoking. I am a little taken back by your use of the terms "laundry list" and "top ten list." Scripture teaches that we should bring everything before the Lord in prayer. He wants us to talk to Him. He wants us to talk about our concerns, thanksgivings, and hopes. He wants us to talk to Him about our journey toward Him. He wants us to confess that we don't have it all figured out, and that we need Him and want to live our lives for Him. You are right, God is not going to take away free will, but he will (and has) changed hardened hearts and broken lives. I believe that prayer was part of that process. I don't know if you are putting God in a box, or if you are limiting Him, but it does sound like you are saying that He only wants us to talk to Him about certain things, and I absolutely disagree with that.
You said that you cannot accept easy answers for complex issues. I hope that someday that changes for you and your family. As you may already know, I have had 2 major surgeries this year. For months, my friends, family and I prayed that God would heal me completely and that the doctors would be absolutely stunned by how rapidly I would ultimately recover. Well, that is exactly what happened. It was only 6 days after MAJOR surgery that I was able to walk around, bathe myself, and take care of myself. We were told that it would take 8-12 weeks for me to reach that point. How do you explain it? God's power was my simple explanation to a very complex problem. My will had nothing to do with it, nor did it have anything to do with my doctor's free will. God gets the credit.
I like your points about Lazuras and Jesus' tears. I had never thought about it really. You are right, he still died in the end. Maybe we are asking God to prolong the inevitable by asking for safe travel or healing when we are sick. But why is that a bad thing? Would you pray for healing if it meant that when you put your request before God that He may answer and prolong your life long enough to walk your daughter down the aisle someday? God wants to hear our hearts, and He wants to hear what we need and want.
In regards to your comments about praying for some and not others, I would caution you to be careful. Just because we don't personally hear the prayer for the "deaf man," that doesn't mean that prayers arent being offered. Maybe he has asked not to be listed on the prayer list. How awesome would it be if you prayed for him, and his hearing was restored? God can do anything.
Well, I can't comment on everything you have written. Sorry that I took up so much space on your blog! Thank you so much for encouraging your readers to think differently. You have a lot of good things to say.
I hope that you and yours are well.
Blessings,
Conni
(St. Louis, McKnight Road)
www.talkingwithjcb.blogspot.com
Conni:
Thanks for the comments. I appreciate everything you had to say.
Blessings,
Klint
Thanks for your message today Klint! I am glad to see someone thinking about their prayer life as much as I do. Thanks to you as well, Connie. You both make great points that I am not smart enough to really comment on !! When I pray, I simply tell God what He already knows... what is on my heart and mind. I know from reading the scriptures, as Connie wrote, we should bring everything before the Lord. I was out making sales calls today and had to see a customer that owed our firm a large sum of money. They have owed us this money for a very long time and I really had no intention of clearing this debt. I simply wanted the owner to know I found his ethics appalling. Before I entered the building, I asked the Lord for guidance, professionalism and patience. I did not say "Please let them give me a check". Long-story-short, I left there paid in full. Coincidence or answered prayer? As I spoke to God on my way out of the parking lot, I simply thanked Him. I know all good things come from God and I will go to my grave telling people that coincidences do not happen. God answers the prayers of a faithful heart. Sometimes I am unclear of the answer, or even unclear of what I am asking of God. But I know in my heart-of-hearts that he's listening. I do agree with you that my prayers sometimes get to be a "check list" and I pray for God's wisdom to help me talk with Him better. As I said our closing prayer at small group Sunday, I got the impression that I was simply re-stating everything everyone had already mentioned. Then I thought how these folks will all be praying over these same issues again later that night.....all of this going through my mind while trying not to sound like an idiot in front of these people !! I have often thought about my lackadaisical attitude in talking TO God. I am, at times, flippant or sarcastic and I wonder how much trouble I'll be in at the day of judgement. But I will NEVER stop talking WITH God. He knows the number of hairs on my head, so he certainly knows my heart. Anyways.....it is late and I am rambling so I'll close now. (I may need to start my own blog if I'm going to write this much!!) Thanks for the thought provoking ideas and for the opportunity to reply. I'd be pleased to sit down and chat with you more about this and I'd be interested in your Tuesday morning prayer group if you have room. I really like the blog--kk
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Conni:
I accidently erased your comment and don't know how to retrieve it. Thanks again for the comment, enjoyed it!
Klint
I am so glad that you chose not to be a monk and live a celibate life..... because the world would have never known Abigail Rae Pleasant! Our journey through life changes us in our relationship to the Father. He is always the same; but, our point of view changes based upon where we are in our life cycle. I would submit that your view of God has changed since the birth of your daughter. And, it will continue to change in the years ahead. I can remember pondering after Rachel was born and Sue was pregnant with Hannah, "How could I love another child as much as I love Rachel?" Thinking back, it seems kind of funny to me now; but, at the time it was a genuine concern of mine. Yet, when Hannah was born my ability to love two girls was not divided; instead, it was geometrically expanded. And, when Adam came along, the experience was cubed. As our capacity to love expands, we find that we are changed even more into the image that God designed. Eventually, we even learn to love the unloveable. That is when true maturity occurs. I still struggle with this on a daily basis. My wife taught me long ago that by being a foster parent, you learn to love someone else's baby just like they are one of your own; and, then, in the end, you give them up! Yes, it hurts. But, taking care of an orphan is about as close as one gets to the heart of God on this side of heaven. That little foster baby can never say "thank you" or do anything in this life in return for you. But, I am convinced that such service as caring for those whom are without parents creates a great reward in the next life. Yet, it is not the brownie point system of rewards that motiviates one to give of himself or herself; rather, it is the experience of having God come near you in the process of serving others. In serving the needs of others, we find that we are the ones being helped the most. We find ourselves being transformed into the image of a servant.
Recently, I had a dear brother in Christ ask me specifically what he could pray for in Rachel's situation? What touched me was that his son had recently died. I told him that I have given up asking God for specifics. I simply asked him to pray that God's will would be accomplished in Rachel's life. I could not help but think how his child had died; and, my daughter lived. Yet, whether we live or die is the same to the God who made each of us.
As a father, I want my daughter to be perfect. I want Rachel to be able to see again. But the partial loss of her earthly vision is nothing compared to the increased degree of her spiritual vision which she has gained in this journey so far in her life. I was blown away when you told me that you and Rachel had been asked to share your journey of faith in an upcoming college lectureship. I don't understand why the path of your journey has carried you from Martin, TN to Kent, OH to Abilene, TX and now to Oxford, MI? I just know that the Lord is with you and I thank God for that! I rejoice in knowing that someday all of our paths will end together at the master's house. And, there we will have a party with music and dancing and no more tears! One big house with lots of rooms for everybody! Sounds pretty good right now, does it not? Maranatha!
Bradford L. Stevens
[Rachel Pleasant's father]
www.bradfordlstevens.blogspot.com
brad1125@swbell.net
Kevin:
I enjoyed your comments as well. I have always looked up to you (spiritually) and admire your "authentic faith."
Brad:
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments. Great insight!
Klint
Scott:
Your comments are authentic! Thanks you so much for being a prayer warrior on behalf of my family. And thank you for your willingness to understand that to pray and to believe is mystery.
Your Friend,
Klint
Anonymous:
A person emailed me this morning that wants to remain anonymous, however, she was touched by this posting and said many positive insightful things. She mentioned that she feels the same way but is afraid to share it b/c of what people might think.
Thank You Anonymous!
Oh how you make me miss our discussions. These three remain, faith, hope, and love. I have also learned how important peace is. There is nothing physical that could be greater. I would not trade any of these things for my legs and my legs where pretty important to me. It is hard to be spiritual when we live in the flesh. It is hard to focus on the important things when the unimportant things mean so much to us. Miss ya’ll. Make sure Abbey watches UT beat that team from the west cost. Last year she was just in time to see UT beat that team from the north.
Clint:
I miss you! You have shaped my faith as much as anybody! A lot of late night discussions. I will be in Abilene in Feb!
KP
Scott,
I would have to confess that when I had my gall bladder taken out, I did a lot of praying! I discovered that there was pain that even morphine did not take away. Yet, even in the midst of that pain, I knew that God was there with me. I hate pain. But, even Jesus learned obediance through suffering. Personally, I would have preferred another medium. I guess that is why it is the lowest common denominator of humanity. Thanks for being there for Klint and Rachel. You are a true friend!
Woj:
I appreciate your comments and am thankful not everyone sees the scripures and nature of God just as I do. That being said I am absolutely convinced and hold deep convictions with the way I view (and approach) scripture and who God is as it relates to divine intervention. However, if everyone saw it like me this would be a pretty boring place. Again, your comments are appreciated and I wish more would share as you have.
Klint
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